According to this video[0] the shape is because there's a requirement for 95th percentile males to be able to stand up inside and the front is low for 5th percentile females to be able to see a specific distance in front of the hood. The shape makes perfect sense.
I've read so much knocking their appearance, which is so confusing to me. It's ultimately function over form in this case; who cares if you don't like how it looks? I can only dream that the visibility and safety of having features like such a low hood and large bumpers would be incorporated into other vehicles (i.e., every SUV ever).
Probably in the minority, but I actually like the look of them. I find so many modern car designs indistinguishable from each other. Cars such a narrow range of design that's considered "good aesthetics" that everything looks so uniform.
> Cars such a narrow range of design that's considered "good aesthetics" that everything looks so uniform.
The issue is fuel efficiency. Modern cars are all built to be as aerodynamic and fuel efficient as possible, and the constraints are virtually the same, so the designs are very similar as well.
However, these mail trucks don't travel 85 miles an hour, most of them will be on average less than 25 mp/h or less, where aerodynamics plainly just does not matter (it's v-squared), so they can prioritize safety and driver comfort over anything else.
I think it's a misquote of the phrase "Form ever follows function", commonly attributed to architect Louis Sullivan. It's an odd sentence structure, where the leader comes second in the phrasing, that trips people up.
Oh. What does that even mean? Saying something is "form over function" is not derogatory. Lots of great inventions prioritize form over function (iPod comes to mind).
Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software.
> Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software.
I very much preferred this, actually. file management is really annoying compared to custom-built software with all the tagging etc built-in. Subjective, obviously, but I really miss that every time I'm managing music on linux or windows and get frustrated when labeling invariably changes (even if only subtly) when moved to a device.
Granted, itunes could have also done a much better of unifying the tagging etc with the files to avoid this entire fiasco.
Say what you will about the Grumman LLV, but every one of them you see on the road today is at least 30 years old, and some could be pushing 40. (The similar-looking Ford-Utilimaster FFV is ~25 this year.) As uncomfortable as it must be to sit in one for hours on end (I never had the privilege myself) you've got to respect their longevity.
Here's hoping these new trucks make it to the 2050s and beyond.
"While the all-aluminum body of the LLV has resisted corrosion exceptionally well over the years, the main powertrain components have been replaced multiple times and now must be sourced through aftermarket manufacturing. This has significantly increased repair costs while reducing performance and reliability.
In fact, the Postal Service had to contract an alternative supplier to reverse engineer and manufacture the chassis frame to keep the LLV operational. As a result, the average annual maintenance cost exceeds $5,000, with 7% of LLVs exceeding $10,000 annually. Additionally, they are less fuel-efficient and unsuitable for future delivery needs given projected changes in market demand, mail mix, and increasing delivery points.
The LLVs also lack modern safety features such as airbags, anti-lock brakes, air conditioning, back-up cameras, blind-spot warning systems, daytime running lights, and seatbelt reminders."
https://uspsngdveis.com/documents/USPS+NGDV+FEIS_Dec+2021.pd...
Sort of a Ship of Theseus vehicle. Yes, some have lasted over 40 years, but that's with potentially multiple drivetrain replacements, at an annual maintenance cost of $5,000 - $10,000. That feels high, given how simple those vehicles are.
I believe the LLV line was only suppose to be in service for 20 years, but the government gonna government and not find a replacement till it's almost too late. So yes it was a lot of scrounging and probably a lot of USPS mechanics needing to be creative, but the LLV lasted twice as long as it was designed for. I expect this same conversation will happen again in another 40 years.
> the government gonna government and not find a replacement till it's almost too late
Actually they were going to convert to EVs back in 2006 when Bush stepped in to prevent that and punish them on behalf of his oil buddies with the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. The problem isn't government, it's politicians voted in to destroy it in favor of corporate interests.
> According to Tom Davis, the Bush administration threatened to veto the legislation unless they added the provision regarding funding the employee benefits in advance with the objective of using that money to reduce the federal deficit.
Bush was responsible for the provision that kneecapped USPS to prevent them from ever funding their EV ambitions (until Biden funded NGDV in 2022)
After driving a new Mercedes Vito (I can't describe how insane the controls of this vehicle are, but it has capacitive-touch buttons that you have to swipe to change the stereo volume ON THE STEERING WHEEL), I long for controls that look like this:
Tactile controls should be the default. I was actually interested in the Lincoln Corsair until I saw how much they rely on touch - even for things like the climate control, same as the Teslas. Instantly took it off the list.
I'm proud to have helped implement the brand new dedicated ERP system that is used to build these trucks. Nice to see the final product is hitting the streets.
I wondered why other delivery companies use commercial vehicles instead of NGDVs or LLVs, and the answer is that commercial vehicles are more capable while being significantly cheaper.
NGDVs cost $60,000 each, and that's for half of them being ICE vehicles and half EVs with a 70 mile range (35 miles if you use the heater). The ICE version gets 14.7 miles per gallon (8.6mpg if you turn on the air conditioning).[1] There is no hybrid version, which is outrageous considering the expected driving profile.
For comparison, a Mercedes eSprinter (which has more cargo capacity and >2x the range of the NGDV) starts at $63,475 MSRP. I'm sure a bulk order of 50,000 would get a significant discount.
This whole project seems to be a handout to a defense contractor, not an efficient use of funds.
One key difference between USPS and UPS/Fedex is that USPS does not do freight, and they do a lot more lightweight items (i.e. letters), so cargo capacity is much less of a concern. The fact that junk mail is so common actually reduces the need for cargo capacity since their routes tend to be made long not because of physical volume so much as dwell time (that is, if someone is using EDDM[0] to target a neighborhood, you have to stop at every mailbox in that neighborhood, even if it's just to deliver that one piece of junk mail which will immediately get thrown away, and this takes far more time than delivering a bundle of packages to a handful of houses).
I remember reading about the NGDV, and one of the reasons it looks so weird is because USPS wanted a vehicle that was low to the ground (to make it easier to climb in and out of) and easy to see over the hood, even for very short drivers[1]. Given that they are in residential areas (and thus, in proximity of kids playing outside) far more often than UPS/Fedex, I can't say I disagree with that requirement. (Also, if you have a tall truck like UPS and Fedex typically roll, good luck delivering to the average mailbox while staying in your seat.)
USPS has certainly evaluated more traditional designs; in fact, they are actively using ~20k Ram ProMasters, which are quite similar to the Mercedes Sprinter, alongside ~9k mini vans[2].
The NGDVs aren't Sprinter vans, they're purpose made mail delivery vehicles, with ergonomics and cargo space setup for that, which makes a massive difference for the drivers, especially when it comes to repetitive motion injuries, which is a huge cost for USPS.
Amazon went away from commercial vans to purpose made vehicles built by Rivian for many of the same reasons and they've been widely praised by the drivers.
The Rivian vans are commercially available.[1] Like the NGDV, they have a side door and an 80 inch interior height so that nobody has to stoop while in the cargo bay.
As usual when you take a dismissive stance ("this is obviously a waste of money!") you are ignoring lots od details. The use case of a mail carrier is not well suited by a massive eSprinter. They have no need for something so large. They want to be seated at the height where most mailboxes are so they can make many deliveries without getting out of the car.
Whenever you find yourself going "why would they make THAT decision?" assume it is yourself that is ignorant and take it as an opportunity to learn, rather than dismiss the choices of people who specialize in the area you are puzzled by.
I used the eSprinter as one example, not the only option. Maybe something like the Ford eTransit or the Rivian EDV is a better fit for postal deliveries. My point is that other delivery companies and postal services use commercial vehicles, most likely because that's the most cost-effective option.
Considering the NGDV's atrocious efficiency, lack of hybrid option, and high unit costs, it seems far more likely that this is a pork project for a defense contractor than that everyone else is doing it wrong.
> I wondered why other delivery companies use commercial vehicles instead of NGDVs or LLVs, and the answer is that commercial vehicles are more capable while being significantly cheaper.
Commercial vehicles in fleets are leased - they last anywhere from 2-5 years then they're pushed off to the used vehicle market. After 10-15 years they're so done that they'll end up on the scrap yard or shipped off to Africa or Asia. On top of that they're designed to be aerodynamic at highway speeds because they'll spend a lot of their life time on such streets and speeds, whereas these postal trucks will spend most of their time moving like snails.
These USPS tanks in contrast are expected to last 30, 40 years like their predecessors, racking up insane mileage... and while no one cares if some underpaid gig worker runs over some child because the child happened to be in the dead spot of his vehicle, if the same happens to USPS the government itself is the target for a nice juicy lawsuit. So it makes sense for a custom order at that scale and expected life time, and it also makes sense to stray from what the market has to offer because the requirements are different.
Oh, and commercial delivery doesn't have to take care about its workers. They'll get burned out with their backs and joints ruined, but the companies don't have to pay a dime. In contrast, USPS is a government agency and has a massive financial incentive to keep healthcare costs low.
I have great faith in the ability of ahem some individuals to harm themselves out of spite or inability to recognize inbound leopards, but I'm pretty sure that even those would find the new vehicles to be an improvement even if they're EVs - at least if they're actually driving the old and new vehicles.
They aren't/weren't all going to be EVs. Originally the USPS was looking at 10% EVs and 90% internal combustion but there were a bunch of challenges to that (including that ratio being based on incorrect environmental impact data). Now it's 75% EVs in the first order of 60,000 and future orders may be that high or higher (currently expected that it will be all EVs starting in 2026).
One benefit of a low hood is that it scoops up pedestrians that might get hit instead of hitting their torsos with the vehicle. It'll probably break your legs, but you are more likely to survive.
This is one of the reasons that SUVs and large trucks are deadly: it's basically hitting you directly in the chest cavity.
> Four variants of the NGDV are expected to be in fleet use: both gasoline-powered and battery-electric, in either front wheel drive or all wheel drive.
So I expect the front hood is for the gas powered engine for those variants. Further down, it talks about only 10% will be EV at the start due to cost. Also, this is in partnership with Ford so the ICE power train is the from the Ford Transit van.
i guess they could have made it flat nosed like a bus?? are they putting the batteries in the nose? it looks like the cargo part is too low for them to be placed under there. also, gotta put that ac somewhere. probably makes it easier to work on under the little hood than having to climb on top of the truck.
Direct Vision Standards[0] should implemented as a mandatory requirement everywhere for large vehicles traveling in cities or residential areas where there's "soft road users"[1] (pedestrians, cyclists). Should be able to see straight to the side and know you're not running someone over.
I was squeezing by in front of a modern garbage truck this morning that basically had a glass side door. It was great: I could actually establish eye contact with the driver and sign that I was going to drive in front of him and he could give me small wave to go ahead. The driver of a less modern truck would have had no way at all to see me, much less communicate with me.
This is great news! The design is interesting though. Why would they choose such a hard angle for the hood and windshield vs something more gentle? Does anybody know why they made that design choice?
Interesting that the front windshield only has about 50-60% usable space. On the top this makes sense, as the black coating acts as a sun shade. On the bottom... there goes all the visibility gained by having the low hood. wtf?
The upfitter AUX switches appear to be Ford, same for the AC controls.
The camera is positioned so that the side window is visible through the front windshield. I think the "black coating" you are seeing is just the interior of the van, and that the entire front windshield is usable.
My $5 it's the usual 'too late to change'. Compare with the 2021 version.
Also the if you trace LoS in the cabin pic in the article you would find what the driver wouldn't see more of the hood because he need to be sat quite a lot higher (up to 20cm I think) to gain the view you are thinking of. And this is incompatible with 'do the mailman thing without getting out of chair'.
> On the bottom... there goes all the visibility gained by having the low hood. wtf?
That is a little weird, now that I look at it again. But the way you'd use the rest of that bottom space would be by lowering the driver, basically, and that would mean the driver's not as high up over the hood. So maybe getting the higher angle gains more visibility than having them sit lower just to maximize usable windshield area? (The only way you could have both is if the dashboard was transparent.)
lol they're paying (with my money) something like 60k for each one of those.
Should have just bought police explorers like the cops are driving and saved 15-20k+ per unit. Plus as a bonus you might have actual parts availability for the foreseeable future, unlike when Oshkosh corp decides burning money in a barrel is more financially viable than building replacement parts for the postal service and the 40-70k of these that they'll actually get ordered before the budget gets slashed or whatever.
http://archive.today/Mcwu5
According to this video[0] the shape is because there's a requirement for 95th percentile males to be able to stand up inside and the front is low for 5th percentile females to be able to see a specific distance in front of the hood. The shape makes perfect sense.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt6z4QvtQL8
I've read so much knocking their appearance, which is so confusing to me. It's ultimately function over form in this case; who cares if you don't like how it looks? I can only dream that the visibility and safety of having features like such a low hood and large bumpers would be incorporated into other vehicles (i.e., every SUV ever).
Probably in the minority, but I actually like the look of them. I find so many modern car designs indistinguishable from each other. Cars such a narrow range of design that's considered "good aesthetics" that everything looks so uniform.
I think when it comes to vans they've kind of let go of traditional designs.
like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Dodge-Ra...
Now they've gotten the european influence to be very square:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/2015_For...
or like the european designed mercedes sprinter, very tall too:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Mercedes...
> Cars such a narrow range of design that's considered "good aesthetics" that everything looks so uniform.
The issue is fuel efficiency. Modern cars are all built to be as aerodynamic and fuel efficient as possible, and the constraints are virtually the same, so the designs are very similar as well.
However, these mail trucks don't travel 85 miles an hour, most of them will be on average less than 25 mp/h or less, where aerodynamics plainly just does not matter (it's v-squared), so they can prioritize safety and driver comfort over anything else.
> I've read so much knocking their appearance, which is so confusing to me.
Especially since the old LLVs were pretty ugly in their own way. We've just gotten used to seeing them over the last 38 years.
> It's ultimately form over function in this case
Doesn't "form over function" mean the opposite of your usage?
Form = appearance
Function = usefulness
Yes, I just reversed it by mistake!
I think it's a misquote of the phrase "Form ever follows function", commonly attributed to architect Louis Sullivan. It's an odd sentence structure, where the leader comes second in the phrasing, that trips people up.
I took this to mean that critiquing appearance is itself form over function.
Oh. What does that even mean? Saying something is "form over function" is not derogatory. Lots of great inventions prioritize form over function (iPod comes to mind).
I’m not convinced the iPod was. Everything else was pretty terrible at that time. The iPod did it right (and arguably still does)
iPod was famously both though? The click-wheel was pretty unique and worked great to make an accessible UIx for the masses.
It may have been somewhat limiting in edge cases, but for normal usage I don't recall anyone complaining about it outside of hardcore tech circles.
"No wireless? Less space than a Nomad? Lame"
Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software.
The click wheel was cool.
> Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software.
I very much preferred this, actually. file management is really annoying compared to custom-built software with all the tagging etc built-in. Subjective, obviously, but I really miss that every time I'm managing music on linux or windows and get frustrated when labeling invariably changes (even if only subtly) when moved to a device.
Granted, itunes could have also done a much better of unifying the tagging etc with the files to avoid this entire fiasco.
Well, they're mostly not qualified to comment on the function, are they?
for utilitarian purposes, like the guy was quoted "it gets the job done", but for soccer moms and their SUV looks are important.
Safety should be even more important than both, but it obviously isn't since only the USPS trucks have a pedestrian safe design.
If safety were more important than looks, the stilleto would be banned.
Would you wear the same cloths but in clown colours?
Say what you will about the Grumman LLV, but every one of them you see on the road today is at least 30 years old, and some could be pushing 40. (The similar-looking Ford-Utilimaster FFV is ~25 this year.) As uncomfortable as it must be to sit in one for hours on end (I never had the privilege myself) you've got to respect their longevity.
Here's hoping these new trucks make it to the 2050s and beyond.
"While the all-aluminum body of the LLV has resisted corrosion exceptionally well over the years, the main powertrain components have been replaced multiple times and now must be sourced through aftermarket manufacturing. This has significantly increased repair costs while reducing performance and reliability.
In fact, the Postal Service had to contract an alternative supplier to reverse engineer and manufacture the chassis frame to keep the LLV operational. As a result, the average annual maintenance cost exceeds $5,000, with 7% of LLVs exceeding $10,000 annually. Additionally, they are less fuel-efficient and unsuitable for future delivery needs given projected changes in market demand, mail mix, and increasing delivery points.
The LLVs also lack modern safety features such as airbags, anti-lock brakes, air conditioning, back-up cameras, blind-spot warning systems, daytime running lights, and seatbelt reminders." https://uspsngdveis.com/documents/USPS+NGDV+FEIS_Dec+2021.pd...
Sort of a Ship of Theseus vehicle. Yes, some have lasted over 40 years, but that's with potentially multiple drivetrain replacements, at an annual maintenance cost of $5,000 - $10,000. That feels high, given how simple those vehicles are.
I believe the LLV line was only suppose to be in service for 20 years, but the government gonna government and not find a replacement till it's almost too late. So yes it was a lot of scrounging and probably a lot of USPS mechanics needing to be creative, but the LLV lasted twice as long as it was designed for. I expect this same conversation will happen again in another 40 years.
> the government gonna government and not find a replacement till it's almost too late
Actually they were going to convert to EVs back in 2006 when Bush stepped in to prevent that and punish them on behalf of his oil buddies with the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. The problem isn't government, it's politicians voted in to destroy it in favor of corporate interests.
According to Wikipedia:
> Passed the House on December 8, 2006 (voice vote)
> Passed the Senate on December 9, 2006 (unanimous consent)
Can't pin it all on Bush Jr.
> According to Tom Davis, the Bush administration threatened to veto the legislation unless they added the provision regarding funding the employee benefits in advance with the objective of using that money to reduce the federal deficit.
Bush was responsible for the provision that kneecapped USPS to prevent them from ever funding their EV ambitions (until Biden funded NGDV in 2022)
> manufacture the chassis frame
Ship of Theseus notwithstanding, at that point, isn't it a new car if you're replacing the chassis?
From my desk at home I see the lil LLV come down our private road every single day. With retrofitted LED lighting.
I'm pretty sure the enemy of vehicle longevity isn't design, but parts supply.
The crown victoria could have kept on supplying police departments for another decade or two if ford didn't discontinue it.
Constantly starting and stopping, too, in a variety of temperatures.
After driving a new Mercedes Vito (I can't describe how insane the controls of this vehicle are, but it has capacitive-touch buttons that you have to swipe to change the stereo volume ON THE STEERING WHEEL), I long for controls that look like this:
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/11/20/multimedia/00xp-m...
Tactile controls should be the default. I was actually interested in the Lincoln Corsair until I saw how much they rely on touch - even for things like the climate control, same as the Teslas. Instantly took it off the list.
I'm proud to have helped implement the brand new dedicated ERP system that is used to build these trucks. Nice to see the final product is hitting the streets.
Can you provide some more information as to what the ERP system is built on? (i.e. open source software, "from scratch", etc?)
Latest Oracle JDE E1
I wondered why other delivery companies use commercial vehicles instead of NGDVs or LLVs, and the answer is that commercial vehicles are more capable while being significantly cheaper.
NGDVs cost $60,000 each, and that's for half of them being ICE vehicles and half EVs with a 70 mile range (35 miles if you use the heater). The ICE version gets 14.7 miles per gallon (8.6mpg if you turn on the air conditioning).[1] There is no hybrid version, which is outrageous considering the expected driving profile.
For comparison, a Mercedes eSprinter (which has more cargo capacity and >2x the range of the NGDV) starts at $63,475 MSRP. I'm sure a bulk order of 50,000 would get a significant discount.
This whole project seems to be a handout to a defense contractor, not an efficient use of funds.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_NGDV#Fuel_economy_and_...
One key difference between USPS and UPS/Fedex is that USPS does not do freight, and they do a lot more lightweight items (i.e. letters), so cargo capacity is much less of a concern. The fact that junk mail is so common actually reduces the need for cargo capacity since their routes tend to be made long not because of physical volume so much as dwell time (that is, if someone is using EDDM[0] to target a neighborhood, you have to stop at every mailbox in that neighborhood, even if it's just to deliver that one piece of junk mail which will immediately get thrown away, and this takes far more time than delivering a bundle of packages to a handful of houses).
I remember reading about the NGDV, and one of the reasons it looks so weird is because USPS wanted a vehicle that was low to the ground (to make it easier to climb in and out of) and easy to see over the hood, even for very short drivers[1]. Given that they are in residential areas (and thus, in proximity of kids playing outside) far more often than UPS/Fedex, I can't say I disagree with that requirement. (Also, if you have a tall truck like UPS and Fedex typically roll, good luck delivering to the average mailbox while staying in your seat.)
USPS has certainly evaluated more traditional designs; in fact, they are actively using ~20k Ram ProMasters, which are quite similar to the Mercedes Sprinter, alongside ~9k mini vans[2].
[0]: https://www.usps.com/business/every-door-direct-mail.htm
[1]: https://x.com/Nir_Kahn/status/1364465483911675905
[2]: https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2023-01/... (PDF page 6)
How in the world is a mail carrier going to deliver mail in a huge esprinter, you going to have them open their door and climb out at every mailbox?
Did you not read the article?
The NGDVs aren't Sprinter vans, they're purpose made mail delivery vehicles, with ergonomics and cargo space setup for that, which makes a massive difference for the drivers, especially when it comes to repetitive motion injuries, which is a huge cost for USPS.
Amazon went away from commercial vans to purpose made vehicles built by Rivian for many of the same reasons and they've been widely praised by the drivers.
The Rivian vans are commercially available.[1] Like the NGDV, they have a side door and an 80 inch interior height so that nobody has to stoop while in the cargo bay.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivian_EDV
As usual when you take a dismissive stance ("this is obviously a waste of money!") you are ignoring lots od details. The use case of a mail carrier is not well suited by a massive eSprinter. They have no need for something so large. They want to be seated at the height where most mailboxes are so they can make many deliveries without getting out of the car.
Whenever you find yourself going "why would they make THAT decision?" assume it is yourself that is ignorant and take it as an opportunity to learn, rather than dismiss the choices of people who specialize in the area you are puzzled by.
I used the eSprinter as one example, not the only option. Maybe something like the Ford eTransit or the Rivian EDV is a better fit for postal deliveries. My point is that other delivery companies and postal services use commercial vehicles, most likely because that's the most cost-effective option.
Considering the NGDV's atrocious efficiency, lack of hybrid option, and high unit costs, it seems far more likely that this is a pork project for a defense contractor than that everyone else is doing it wrong.
> I wondered why other delivery companies use commercial vehicles instead of NGDVs or LLVs, and the answer is that commercial vehicles are more capable while being significantly cheaper.
Commercial vehicles in fleets are leased - they last anywhere from 2-5 years then they're pushed off to the used vehicle market. After 10-15 years they're so done that they'll end up on the scrap yard or shipped off to Africa or Asia. On top of that they're designed to be aerodynamic at highway speeds because they'll spend a lot of their life time on such streets and speeds, whereas these postal trucks will spend most of their time moving like snails.
These USPS tanks in contrast are expected to last 30, 40 years like their predecessors, racking up insane mileage... and while no one cares if some underpaid gig worker runs over some child because the child happened to be in the dead spot of his vehicle, if the same happens to USPS the government itself is the target for a nice juicy lawsuit. So it makes sense for a custom order at that scale and expected life time, and it also makes sense to stray from what the market has to offer because the requirements are different.
Oh, and commercial delivery doesn't have to take care about its workers. They'll get burned out with their backs and joints ruined, but the companies don't have to pay a dime. In contrast, USPS is a government agency and has a massive financial incentive to keep healthcare costs low.
How could they not love them in comparison to the 30+ year old vehicles they've been driving?
Cultural hostility among a subpopulation to electric vehicles as "woke"? Ordinary sentimentality and the natural human discomfort with change?
I have great faith in the ability of ahem some individuals to harm themselves out of spite or inability to recognize inbound leopards, but I'm pretty sure that even those would find the new vehicles to be an improvement even if they're EVs - at least if they're actually driving the old and new vehicles.
I don't mind the appearance if it serves a function, but what's the function? An electric truck wouldn't need a traditional engine compartment.
They aren't/weren't all going to be EVs. Originally the USPS was looking at 10% EVs and 90% internal combustion but there were a bunch of challenges to that (including that ratio being based on incorrect environmental impact data). Now it's 75% EVs in the first order of 60,000 and future orders may be that high or higher (currently expected that it will be all EVs starting in 2026).
sources: article and wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_NGDV)
One benefit of a low hood is that it scoops up pedestrians that might get hit instead of hitting their torsos with the vehicle. It'll probably break your legs, but you are more likely to survive.
This is one of the reasons that SUVs and large trucks are deadly: it's basically hitting you directly in the chest cavity.
Few things are more masculine than mowing down pedestrians with a pseudo diesel locomotive.
According to Wikipedia[1]:
> Four variants of the NGDV are expected to be in fleet use: both gasoline-powered and battery-electric, in either front wheel drive or all wheel drive.
So I expect the front hood is for the gas powered engine for those variants. Further down, it talks about only 10% will be EV at the start due to cost. Also, this is in partnership with Ford so the ICE power train is the from the Ford Transit van.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_NGDV
A crumple zone?
i guess they could have made it flat nosed like a bus?? are they putting the batteries in the nose? it looks like the cargo part is too low for them to be placed under there. also, gotta put that ac somewhere. probably makes it easier to work on under the little hood than having to climb on top of the truck.
I for one welcome our new duck-shaped overlords.
Direct Vision Standards[0] should implemented as a mandatory requirement everywhere for large vehicles traveling in cities or residential areas where there's "soft road users"[1] (pedestrians, cyclists). Should be able to see straight to the side and know you're not running someone over.
[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Vision_Standard [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-motorist
I was squeezing by in front of a modern garbage truck this morning that basically had a glass side door. It was great: I could actually establish eye contact with the driver and sign that I was going to drive in front of him and he could give me small wave to go ahead. The driver of a less modern truck would have had no way at all to see me, much less communicate with me.
The seat height in the banner image looks too tall for the mailboxes. I wonder how the seat height in the NGDV compares to the Grumman LLV.
This is great news! The design is interesting though. Why would they choose such a hard angle for the hood and windshield vs something more gentle? Does anybody know why they made that design choice?
Interesting that the front windshield only has about 50-60% usable space. On the top this makes sense, as the black coating acts as a sun shade. On the bottom... there goes all the visibility gained by having the low hood. wtf?
The upfitter AUX switches appear to be Ford, same for the AC controls.
> The upfitter AUX switches appear to be Ford, same for the AC controls.
Ford supplies the ICE engine, transmission, suspension, steering wheel, and instrument cluster, so that tracks. https://fordauthority.com/2024/10/new-usps-mail-carrier-uses...
The camera is positioned so that the side window is visible through the front windshield. I think the "black coating" you are seeing is just the interior of the van, and that the entire front windshield is usable.
The final photo in the article appears to show pretty good forward visiblity. Seems fine?
My $5 it's the usual 'too late to change'. Compare with the 2021 version.
Also the if you trace LoS in the cabin pic in the article you would find what the driver wouldn't see more of the hood because he need to be sat quite a lot higher (up to 20cm I think) to gain the view you are thinking of. And this is incompatible with 'do the mailman thing without getting out of chair'.
https://www.nalc.org/news/the-postal-record/2021/may-2021/do...
> On the bottom... there goes all the visibility gained by having the low hood. wtf?
That is a little weird, now that I look at it again. But the way you'd use the rest of that bottom space would be by lowering the driver, basically, and that would mean the driver's not as high up over the hood. So maybe getting the higher angle gains more visibility than having them sit lower just to maximize usable windshield area? (The only way you could have both is if the dashboard was transparent.)
Needs just one thing - light blue paintjob with an orange beak and a tiny purple hat. ;)
Reminds me of the Pilatus PC-6. Another ugly duckling (in some people's eyes) that's a workhorse.
lol they're paying (with my money) something like 60k for each one of those.
Should have just bought police explorers like the cops are driving and saved 15-20k+ per unit. Plus as a bonus you might have actual parts availability for the foreseeable future, unlike when Oshkosh corp decides burning money in a barrel is more financially viable than building replacement parts for the postal service and the 40-70k of these that they'll actually get ordered before the budget gets slashed or whatever.