16 comments

  • amelius 18 hours ago

    I wouldn't be surprised if pip had a SAT solver as a dependency.

    • philipkglass 16 hours ago

      The alternative Python package manager "Conda" does use a SAT solver, which sounds elegant at first but can be frustrating when it runs into slow-to-resolve situations. (This happens frequently, which is why I no longer use Conda on my machines).

      https://www.anaconda.com/blog/understanding-and-improving-co...

      • curiousgal 14 hours ago

        Mamba is a drop in replacement for conda which solves that.

        • akoboldfrying 11 hours ago

          "Solves" in what sense? Dependency resolution is an NP-hard problem; if the tool you're using is guaranteed to run quickly, then either (1) there are cases it can't handle but conda can, or (2) the tool's author has just proven P=NP.

          • taeric 4 hours ago

            It is NP-hard, but realistically that should not be a concern for most dependency management questions users throw at it? Just how many variables are folks imagining are in a typical dependency tree?

            Google claims the average number of dependencies is 35. My gut is most of these do not have too many versions, all told. Is this really big enough that you'd expect it to be the bottleneck?

          • StableAlkyne 7 hours ago

            The OP probably means "solved" as in "faster."

            The original Conda solver is just badly optimized, whether through the implementation or a poor language choice. For years, user performance concerns were written off as just the price you pay for the correctness of an SAT.

            Mamba was a third party rewrite that was a couple orders of magnitude faster. Users started leaving Conda for Mamba. It scared the Conda developer enough that they dropped whatever invisible back-end features they were prioritizing, and within months they added a feature to install different dependency resolution libraries, targeting Mamba first.

          • worewood 8 hours ago

            It probably has a heuristic for it

    • __MatrixMan__ 16 hours ago

      SAT solvers are great for when you want to create space in your day for idly thinking about the halting problem.

    • dvh 9 hours ago

      When it comes to sat solvers I have to recommend this excellent video: backwards game of life https://youtube.com/watch?v=g8pjrVbdafY

    • woodruffw 15 hours ago

      I think pip’s current resolving backend (resolvelib) doesn’t do any SAT solving.

  • ziofill 12 hours ago

    Is the opposite possible? I mean to have the dependency resolver use a sat solver? Would it be faster/slower?

    • philipov 11 hours ago

      The Conda package manager is available to users of the Anaconda/Miniconda distribution, which is very popular. Conda uses a sat solver for dependency resolution. It's a lot slower than pip, but it's not a thing that has to happen often enough for that to be a problem.

      It's a good thing, however, that using conda doesn't preclude one from also using pip.

      • SimplyUnknown 9 hours ago

        Conda indeed is slow. However, mamba is a drop in replacement for Conda and uses a way faster solver, which makes it a lot more palatable.

        • philipov 3 hours ago

          Does it use a sat solver that has better average-case behavior, or does it sacrifice on full sat solvability?

    • scheme271 12 hours ago

      Totally possible. Some dependency resolvers use a sat solver. The speed depends on the solver and optimizations in the solver vs resolver.

  • 3abiton 12 hours ago

    This was a fun read, very ignobel spirit!